Lawrence Kasdan co-wrote The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. He co-wrote the new film, The Force Awakens, with director J.J. Abrams. He knows Star Wars better than you, or I, or most other people on the planet. And he has specifically been told to say as little as possible. Heck, I hadn’t even seen the new film yet myself. That’s not a GREAT way to do an interview, but it’s the hand I was dealt at the Star Wars press day in Los Angeles, California, and I played it as best I could.
So knowing full well that Lawrence Kasdan wouldn’t be talking about any of the details of his script, I sat down with the master filmmaker to try to get some sense of how the old Star Wars movies will impact the new ones, and whether the changes in the world around us will affect the world of Star Wars: The Force Awakens. We talked about whether the film’s original screenwriter, Michael Arndt, has any lingering contributions to the finished film. We talked about what “bringing balance to The Force” really means. And we talked about the ghost of Darth Vader – literally and figuratively – and whether he has an active impact on the film’s new villain, Kylo Ren.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens finally premieres this week. We haven’t got a bad feeling about this…
Walt Disney / LucasFilm
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Crave: Let’s start here… I haven’t seen the film yet.
Lawrence Kasdan: You’re not alone. [Laughs.]
You obviously know everything that happens. What would YOU ask you, having seen it? What are the lingering questions you think I’m going to have?
That’s a good question, you know, because we’ve been thinking in terms of were we able to succeed at things we set out to do. J.J. and I sat down to do it under a lot of pressure, did the first draft quickly but then I’ve been writing it ever since! So that’s almost two-and-a-half years that we’ve been writing the thing, and the thing that’s never changed was the idea that there is a spirit to the original trilogy that we wanted to restore.
That wasn’t in the prequel trilogy, per se…?
[Half shrugs, half nods.]
What was the difference do you think? What was the spirit, and how would you describe it?
I think that the first trilogy is funky and goofy and emotional and human. It’s about real people moving through real sets, in real costumes. It’s about puppets that are tangible. It’s not about CGI. You know there’s plenty of CGI in this movie but it’s only by necessity instead of a choice.
Walt Disney / LucasFilm
It strikes me that the original trilogy was much more about the emotions of the characters and the prequel trilogy was much more about politics. Is that something you can get into? Is there a sociological angle in the new trilogy, or the new film?
Oh there is. There’s a big political situation, but as Adam [Driver, who plays Kylo Ren] said in the press conference – you were downstairs, right? – these things repeat themselves in the Star Wars saga, in everyday life. Every time you open up the newspaper we’re seeing that things do not change very much, and if there are repressive regimes they’re hard to get rid of. There are atrocities in wars going on every minute.
As a storyteller does that give you the freedom to be cyclical or is that a potential danger? I’m thinking of how, on the poster, we saw what looks like another Death Star for example…
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or something similar to it.
You know, it’s a danger if it doesn’t satisfy. But the problem is, the thing is that one person’s sitting here in the theater and one person’s sitting here. One person’s totally satisfied by it and the other one says, “Oh, it’s another Death Star.” [Laughs.] The one who likes it may say, “I love Death Stars,” and the one who’s next to them may say, “Why can’t they come up with a different thing?”
So the question is, in the overall, do people feel satisfied or not, happy or not about what we’ve done? And do we? I can tell you, for me, I feel really good about it and I’ve seen it seven or eight times.
“I think that the first trilogy is funky and goofy and emotional and human. It’s about real people moving through real sets, in real costumes.”
You were around when Return of the Jedi was finishing up, and there were all these rumors that they would go on to Episode VII, VIII, IX…
Yeah, yeah.
Were any ideas that were floated around at the time revisited here? Or did you start completely from scratch?
Completely from scratch.
What about Michael Arndt’s screenplay? Is anything from his draft left behind?
There was a period of nine months when Michael was involved and there was a story group, and it me and Kathy [Kennedy] and Simon Kinberg and Michael and Kiri [Hart], who works at LucasFilm, it was a big group. That’s probably part of the reason that it was so hard for Michael too; there were too many people talking to him. You know? And there are, no question, there are things in the movie that came from that period. Michael is… he’s a brilliant, brilliant writer and a great guy.
Would those be moments, or the basic framework…?
I think it’s hard to… I can’t really tell you, and not because I’m keeping it from you because for nine months you talk about something, and then you go off and start from scratch again. You don’t flush, you know?
Walt Disney / LucasFilm
One thing that’s in every single Star Wars movie is “I’ve got a bad feeling about this.”
Yes.
Is that a responsibility, that you have to put that in there? And then deciding the right scene? Because theoretically almost any scene could have that.
Yeah. I like it. It’s a signature thing. It’s just for one. Most of what I push for is for fun. [Laughs.] It’s not for… you know, I have a couple lines like in my movies, that are in every movie, and it’s westerns and thrillers and comedies, and I just like to get the line in.
So it is in there? “I have a bad feeling about this?” That can’t possibly be a spoiler, right?
If it weren’t in there I’d have a bad feeling about it.
“It’s not just the Empire or The First Order, it’s about the rebels and the Republic. Who’s standing for what?”
Looking back on the original trilogy, the Empire were bad dudes. Fascistic. What were they about? What was the rhetoric? How did they get people to agree to be part of an empire, and how would that affect the Knights of Ren now? The idea of bringing people into a government that is bad for them…
Well we see it every day, everywhere. [Laughs.] It’s here in the United States.
But what sort of conversations do you have about that?
We had a lot of conversations about what is the political agenda of each side. It’s not just the Empire or The First Order, it’s about the rebels and the Republic. Who’s standing for what? What do they want?
Are the Rebels purely good?
I don’t think anybody is. That’s why what Adam said is so relevant, because it’s a much more interesting character if he’s not purely anything.
I want to ask you about ghosts…
Yeah.
LucasFilm
J.J. Abrams has alluded to the idea that Kylo Ren is inspired by Darth Vader. Isn’t the ghost of Darth Vader around now, after the end of Return of the Jedi? Are the ghosts of other Jedi still wandering?
Literal ghosts?
Well, Obi-Wan Kenobi was able to talk to Luke Skywalker…
My father died when I was 14. He has been very much a presence in my life. A lot of it is made up, because I didn’t know him that well, you know? I knew him as best a 14-year-old could know someone who was in a marriage that was full of strife. And then he died, so I didn’t even get to be an adult with him. And yet there are qualities that he had that I think are very strong in me, and even if they aren’t really from him, I attribute them to him. On the other hand my mother lived to be 90-something, and I have a lot of qualities from her, good and bad.
It’s really hard to sort those things out. The Star Wars saga is about that sorting out. It always is. That’s what Luke was trying to do. He’s trying to figure out, was his father a great thing for him? And did he give him great gifts? Or was his father pure evil? And there was no clear answer, ever?
There’s something the other movies aren’t very clear about, and that’s the prophecy that Anakin Skywalker would bring “Balance to the Force.”
Yes.
“So far we have not seen balance in the universe, in the real world. The galaxy is just like the real world.”
In your eyes, what does that mean?
It may be the unattainable. Perfection. So far we have not seen balance in the universe, in the real world. The galaxy is just like the real world. It still remains a goal amongst some people to achieve balance, but it’s very hard to achieve, and there are some people who want the opposite. It’s not out of evil. They do not want there to be an equilibrium in the universe. They want to control the universe.
So you don’t think there’s an endgame in Star Wars, where there’s peace, it’s done, we’re happy and we move on?
It would fly in the face of all experience of mankind.
True, but Star Wars is in some ways a fantasy, right?
It is! Well, you know, things were awfully looking good at the end of Jedi. But you didn’t have the sense that they were going to stay that way forever.
Photo Credit: Michael Buckner / Getty Images North America
William Bibbiani (everyone calls him ‘Bibbs’) is Crave’s film content editor and critic. You can hear him every week on The B-Movies Podcast and watch him on the weekly YouTube series Most Craved and What the Flick. Follow his rantings on Twitter at @WilliamBibbiani.
